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    Manager hesitates when HR orders termination of older employee who clocks in and out from home: 'I know she knows it's wrong'

    Rules are rules, no matter who breaks them.

    It is only human nature to ignore what we're told now and then, especially when that does not align with what we believe to be our best interests. However, there are times when doing that is going to have consequences that we don't like sooner or later. The fact of the matter is that rules exist for a reason and are generally imposed by those who have some kind of power over us. That makes it risky to circumvent them in most contexts.

    No doubt about it, there are many rules that are difficult to work with, and some that are just plain dumb. The workplace, in particular, can prove frustrating in this regard. Plenty of employees have suffered from complying with some stringent HR policy or a power-hungry micromanager. Sometimes, there is an argument to be made to push back against what is considered necessary for the job, but that usually has to be done under careful circumstances. Without that, there is every chance that there will be retaliation against whoever refuses to follow the law of the land. It often isn't worth protesting if keeping your job is the priority.

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    • An older woman sitting on a couch and holding a notebook works on a laptop on a coffee table in front of her
      via Getty Images (Unsplash+)

      An older woman sitting on a couch and holding a notebook works on a laptop on a coffee table in front of her

      The image does not depict the actual subjects of the story. Subjects are models.

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    • In this story, a manager was informed that HR wanted an employee let go for clocking in and out at home for an on-site position. While the manager knew that what she was doing was against policy, she felt that she had some personal circumstances that should allow her some leeway. That being said, other people had lost their jobs at the organization for the same thing, so HR felt justified in their reasoning. The supervisor looked for a second opinion.

    • Termination I Don't Agree With

      I'm being asked to terminate someone that has regularly (3-4 times a week) clocked in and out from home.
      via Vlad_REAM
    • This is an onsite position, so that's definitely not okay, and I'm not going to defend her actions.
      via Vlad_REAM
    • Our agency considers this "time theft". She was caught because one of our HR reps decided to use the GPS to track her work phone and saw that she was not onsite (on a few occasions) while clocked in for work.
      via Vlad_REAM
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    • \*background, she's an older woman who's had a lot of health issues including surgery that put her on dis lity leave for a few weeks, taking care of grandkids that she didn't sign up for and (probably the problem) I like her and she works her a off.
      via Vlad_REAM
    • An office worker sitting at a desk makes notes in a folder with an open laptop on the desk in front of her
      via Getty Images (Unsplash+)

      An office worker sitting at a desk makes notes in a folder with an open laptop on the desk in front of her

      The image does not depict the actual subjects of the story. Subjects are models.

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    • 2) an excellent employee in every other way, the program will be greatly affected by her loss.
      via Vlad_REAM
    • the grass isn't always greener. 3) It's an "obvious" rule and a written policy but never explicitly stated to her.
      via Vlad_REAM
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    • 4) her manager, and myself at times filling in for him (I'm his manager) have allowed "working from home" with her that aren't exactly within policy because of her health issues.
      via Vlad_REAM
    • 5) I've had to terminate 2 employees for this same thing but wasn't allowed to terminate someone that had incredibly more egregious time theft but found out later that she was in the process of suing the organization so we didn't do anything.
      via Vlad_REAM
    • 6) if they dug this deep on lots of employees I think they would find the same thing, his is speculation I know HR's reasons: 1) they've terminated others for the exact same thing.
      via Vlad_REAM
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    • A woman holding a cardboard box of belongings walks through a doorway
      via Karolina Grabowska (Unsplash+)

      A woman holding a cardboard box of belongings walks through a doorway

      The image does not depict the actual subjects of the story. Subjects are models.

    • AdMurky3039 Is she violating the policy for a health-related reason? If so, does she need to be accommodated rather than terminated? On a side note, your company seems clueless if they have lost multiple employees and still can't figure out that they need a hybrid policy at a minimum.
      via AdMurky3039
    • Vlad_REAM Original Poster's Reply She is! And that's exactly why I think it should start with a conversation and not an immediate termination. Tell me about it, I'm already in "trouble" because my programs allow a 1 day remote schedule. The only reason I got away with it is because I had already been going on so long It's a social services job and definitely being I person is a huge part of the job but I give a remote day to my team to get their administrative tasks done. Otherwise the next coac
      via Vlad_REAM
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    • dscol715 Why are you "allowing" a violation of policy that has resulted in the termination of other people in the past? Seems like you really did this person a disservice.
      via dscol715
    • Ok-Double-7982 No. She should have asked for some schedule adjustments if she had issues. Or is her job one of those where if she shows up 15 minutes late, she can stay 15 minutes?
      via Ok-Double-7982
    • CodyRyan86 I mean... it's a tough situation. I went to bat over a write up I disagreed with. They wanted me to write someone up for issues that preceded me being at the company by months. I felt I was in the right because I was not there to witness the behaviors and I believe on delivering accountability in a timely manner. Say within 30 days of the instance. Well, I won overall and did not deliver the write up. But I also lost considerably in terms of the higher ups buy in to myself. My image w
      via CodyRyan86
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    • Vlad_REAM Original Poster's Reply Thank you for sharing. And I don't think I'm coming from an objective opinion because there are other team members that I would have no problem with letting go the same infractions. She has a lot going on in her life that's out of her control. Maybe I'm more mad at myself (or her actual manager) for not catching it in the moment and addressing it so it didn't turn into a frequent occurrence.
      via Vlad_REAM
    • Negotiation-Solid "And I don't think I'm coming from an objective opinion because there are other team members that I would have no problem with letting go the same infractions." I don't agree with the policy but it's important to be fair and consistent. That sentence quoted above would garner a big yikes from HR
      via Negotiation-Solid
    • Big_Two_6321 Seems to be a lot going on with her. Guessing this is in the US, where humanity generally seems to be lacking, but more so in the work space. At-will working conditions appear to mean everyone is expendable at the drop of a hat, regardless of personal circumstances or affect on the company. In this situation, the loss of her job would likely cause a crisis for her and big ripples in her family. Don't you first need to understand why she's doing what she's doing and then see what the
      via Big_Two_6321

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