search email community favorite this article chev-right latest posts article list comments tags video article login twitter facebook menu pinterest whatsapp

Company spends $263,000 a year on engineering team’s daily meeting instead of letting them work: ‘Decisions made during standup: zero’

Advertisement
  • Group of coworkers laughing and chatting together in a modern office kitchen area, holding coffee cups and enjoying a casual break.
  • Advertisement
  • Your company spends $263k a year on a meeting that could be a slack message

    We have 12 engineers, fully loaded cost is roughly $145/hour per person. 15 minute standup every morning.
  • Works out to about $435 per standup which doesn't sound crazy until you multiply it. Over a full year that's about $104k just on this one meeting.
  • And that's assuming everyone gets right back to work after which lol no. There's some UC Irvine research saying it takes about 23 minutes to get back into deep focus after an interruption.
  • Advertisement
  • So the real cost is closer to $263k when you factor in the ramp back up.
  • I actually tracked our standups for a month at a previous job because I'm that guy apparently.
  • Advertisement
  • Team of young professionals collaborating around a table in a creative office, using laptops and tablets while discussing ideas over coffee.
  • Decisions made during standup: zero. Times someone said "let's take that offline": fourteen. We spent a month collectively agreeing the meeting was the wrong place to discuss things.
  • Advertisement
  • Not saying k | all standups. I've been on two teams where they genuinely worked. Five minutes, someone raises a real blocker, someone helps, done.
  • But most of them are just people reading jira tickets out loud while everyone else zones out waiting for their turn.
  • Anyone else ever run these numbers? Curious what other teams are seeing.
  • Advertisement
  • Vegetable_Walrus_166 This is assuming everyone is being productive the whole day. Also assuming this meeting doesn't catch 1 mistake or create some other efficiencies that lead to 104k in revenue
  • agileliecom Original Poster's Reply You're right nobody's productive 8 hours straight. But that's kind of the point. If you've only got maybe 5-6 hours of real productive time in a day, spending 38 minutes of it on a meeting where nothing gets decided hurts even more. The catching mistakes thing is fair, but in my experience the mistakes get caught in code review or when someone pings you directly. Not when person number 7 is giving their update and everyone else is staring at the wall.
  • CaptCamel The value of a standup depends entirely on what you do during it. One of the best teams I worked on used standups as a way to share three things: new learnings from the previous day, blockers where people needed help, and announcements (usually came from the PM or the eng manager). If there was nothing to discuss, the meeting was ended early. I think our record time was 2 minutes. But just reading jira tickets isn't super helpful.
  • Advertisement
  • agileliecom Original Poster's Reply Your format is basically what works. Learnings, blockers, announcements, done. The 2 minute record is the sign of a healthy team because it means people are comfortable saying "nothing today" instead of inventing an update to justify their presence.
  • Abhigyan_Bose Personally I like stand-ups. Sometimes someone else in my team knows the solution to a problem that I was stuck on. We have them 3 days a week. I think if done well, in a small enough team they're worth it. Mostly because, most team members wouldn't care to read the slack updates of everyone else. I know I wouldn't.
  • agileliecom Original Poster's Reply 3 days a week with a small team is probably the sweet spot honestly. You get the "oh I know how to fix that" moments without the daily grind of updates nobody needs. And you're right that nobody reads async updates. I've tried it and the slack channel just becomes another thing people ignore.
  • Advertisement
  • dabenu That's not how it works. Those productive 5-6 hours are already in-between meetings. Eliminating the meetings won't increase your productivity to 8 hours. There's only so much brain capacity a human can use per day. Of course there's an optimum here (obviously you can't fill the entire 2-3hr "downtime" with meetings) but a short standup where you get an update on the entire team can easily fit in without eating into productivity. Also because it's a regular daily occurrence so you just pl
  • agileliecom Original Poster's Reply Talking to your peers is healthy, agreed. And "fix it don't eliminate it" is fair. My issue is more with teams that never ask whether it needs fixing because it's just what you do. Your team reminding yourselves to focus on impediments instead of listing every item is exactly the kind of self-correction most teams never bother with.
  • UnluckyAssist9416 Standups aren't for the engineers. It is for the managers, so they know what everyone is doing. It is also for accountability. You are much more likely to do your job if you know you have to give a update on what you are doing daily then if you do weekly.
  • Advertisement
  • agileliecom Original Poster's Reply This is the honest answer nobody wants to say out loud. The whole "it's for the team to sync" thing is the marketing version. The real reason is someone upstairs wants to know what everyone is doing every day without having to ask individually. Which is fine I guess. Just call it what it is instead of pretending it's for the engineers.
  • matt95110 I once calculated that my idiot manager was wasting $320k a year by doing hour long daily stand ups with the entire team.
  • agileliecom Original Poster's Reply Hour long daily standups. At that point just call it what it is, a meeting.
  • Advertisement
  • Vegetable_Walrus_166 I don't work in the same kind of industry but my morning meeting are pretty relaxed. I also don't think you want to work for a company that's so worried about about productivity that they cancel a 30 minute chat with co workers
  • agileliecom Original Poster's Reply The relaxed morning chat with coworkers is great. That's not what most standups are though. Most standups are structured rounds where everyone gives their update in order while people wait. If yours feels like a chill morning chat you're in the minority and I'd hold onto that.
  • iamonewiththeforce Actually quite well, we've been doing that for months now. The thread often turns into a discussion on some useful aspects of what's being worked on. It's super useful. That said, the team is a "elite" team within the company (I'm just the lowly PM of that team) so the engineers know how to handle themselves beyond just code.
  • Advertisement
  • agileliecom Original Poster's Reply The "elite team" part is probably why it works honestly. Self- directed engineers who actually care about the work will make almost any format work. The format matters less than the people. Curious though, do you find people actually read the full thread or just post their update and move on?
  • iamonewiththeforce Our daily standup is a slack thread automatically created each day
  • agileliecom Original Poster's Reply How's that working out? Genuinely curious, every time I've tried async standups people either write novels or stop posting after a week.

Tags

Scroll Down For The Next Article
Show Comments
Next Article